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| DOS Games Discussion
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| Should Santhosh CHRiS be banned? |
| Yes |
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100% |
[ 4 ] |
| Yes. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 4 |
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Message |
dosraider
Admin
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 7197
Location: ROTFLMAO in Belgium.
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 Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:11 am
Post subject: |
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| lakerzz8 wrote: |
Every situation is different and that is why it is impossible to say with complete accuracy what the abuse will lead the person to do. However, ignoring the fact that they were abused and saying it is inconsequential is wrong. |
I didn't say it's inconsequential, I said it's a cheap excuse, it's not because you were abused that you absolutely must abuse others, we are not animals, we have a free will.
| lakerzz8 wrote: |
Do you think those born into poverty an die of malnutrition are what they want to be? |
What is the point of that statement in the abuse discussion? Abuse is widely spread, nothing to see with poverty.
| lakerzz8 wrote: |
Do you think a little girl that is raped by her father and is psychologically scarred for life will lead as full and complete of a life as a little girl that received nothing but love and support from her parents? |
Again what's the point of this in the current discussion?
We are discussing abusing children, not rape, but even then, if you want to go that way, will raped girls rape other girls through their life?
If we go with your statements, they should go on a raping spree.
| lakerzz8 wrote: | | Come on man, why do you think psychologists get paid so much money to help people. |
We don't have that culture of a shrink for every person here in W-Europ.
But it seems we slowly go that way, $$$$$$$$$$$ is the reason.
| lakerzz8 wrote: | | those that slip through and aren't helped in time may be the next child molester. Being abused as a child is not a cheap excuse. |
Explain now why those that were never abused become abusers.
What's their excuse?
You may post as many lulz a you want, those are the facts:
-> abusers know it's wrong.
-> many who were abused will indeed abuse in their later life.
-> many who were abused will not do the same, they will restrain themselves from harming others in the same way.
-> many who abuse were never abused. They are simple rotten beings that live for themselves and don't want to restrain themselves.
-> many who abuse simply enjoy the feeling of power that comes with it.
-> we are humans, beings with a free will, to do good or wrong. |
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Santhosh CHRiS
Way too much free time
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 583
Location: India
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:30 pm
Post subject: |
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TIME Magazine released a special commemorative issue of Michael Jackson.
http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/06/time_honors_michael_jackson.php
I just recently bought a copy and it was awesome!! It shows his humble beginnings with the Jackson 5, his rise to fame, his talent in music that won the hearts of billions, his dark side, the conspiracies but overall it celebrates his life with photos and EVERYTHING!
Don't miss it! Pick up YOUR copy today!  |
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Dogbreath
Admin
Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 4439
Location: In the back of a jacked-up Ford.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:32 pm
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So you got that job at Time, eh Santhosh?
(j/k, j/k  ) |
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lakerzz8
~Lakerz~Fan~
Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 764
Location: L.A., California
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:08 am
Post subject: |
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| dosraider wrote: | | lakerzz8 wrote: |
Every situation is different and that is why it is impossible to say with complete accuracy what the abuse will lead the person to do. However, ignoring the fact that they were abused and saying it is inconsequential is wrong. |
I didn't say it's inconsequential, I said it's a cheap excuse, it's not because you were abused that you absolutely must abuse others, we are not animals, we have a free will.
| lakerzz8 wrote: |
Do you think those born into poverty an die of malnutrition are what they want to be? |
What is the point of that statement in the abuse discussion? Abuse is widely spread, nothing to see with poverty.
| lakerzz8 wrote: |
Do you think a little girl that is raped by her father and is psychologically scarred for life will lead as full and complete of a life as a little girl that received nothing but love and support from her parents? |
Again what's the point of this in the current discussion?
We are discussing abusing children, not rape, but even then, if you want to go that way, will raped girls rape other girls through their life?
If we go with your statements, they should go on a raping spree.
| lakerzz8 wrote: | | Come on man, why do you think psychologists get paid so much money to help people. |
We don't have that culture of a shrink for every person here in W-Europ.
But it seems we slowly go that way, $$$$$$$$$$$ is the reason.
| lakerzz8 wrote: | | those that slip through and aren't helped in time may be the next child molester. Being abused as a child is not a cheap excuse. |
Explain now why those that were never abused become abusers.
What's their excuse?
You may post as many lulz a you want, those are the facts:
-> abusers know it's wrong.
-> many who were abused will indeed abuse in their later life.
-> many who were abused will not do the same, they will restrain themselves from harming others in the same way.
-> many who abuse were never abused. They are simple rotten beings that live for themselves and don't want to restrain themselves.
-> many who abuse simply enjoy the feeling of power that comes with it.
-> we are humans, beings with a free will, to do good or wrong. |
You said we have free will and everything else is a cheap excuse. The point of those statements was to show that what happens to us during life has a big impact and can sometimes be impossible to overcome (such as poverty, rape, etc) sorry that those examples flew over your head. I'll try something simpler next time.
Girls that get raped won't go on raping other girls. It doesn't work like that. What will probably happen is they will have sexual difficulties during relationships, have problems comitting, have anxiety when they step out on the street alone.
Guys that are abused or raped as little boys are the ones that are likely to become abusive later in their life.
Boys that watch their fathers beat their mothers their whole life and are taught by their fathers as acceptable go on to do the same to their spouses.
Our childhood is a very critical time in our development and sure it is possible to undo the damage done during childhood, but once again it is not a cheap excuse. And just because every person abused doesn't go on to abuse others does not mean that those that do were not strongly affected and damaged during their childhood.
And those that were never abused and go on to abuse others are known as sociopaths. It is a mental disorder. It is like they have no conscience. You said that they know what they are doing is wrong. All they know is that it is against the law, but they do not have a right and wrong moral compass like the rest of us. That little voice in our heads that tells us that what we are doing is bad is either very quiet or absent.
But whatever, we'll have to agree to disagree because I'm tired of writing these long posts and reading yours. |
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Dogbreath
Admin
Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 4439
Location: In the back of a jacked-up Ford.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:39 am
Post subject: |
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I'm quite amused watching a 17 year old California kid lecture a 55 year old who grew up in post war France on the hardships of life. Not disparaging you, lakerzz, it just struck me as funny for some reason.
I worked for a year and a half at a "children's home" (though it was mostly young teens, and run more like a JDC than a home, barbed wire fences and all) here in town that had over 80 children who had been sexually abused and specialised in SAO youth. I've been trying to avoid this discussion simply because I've talked and read so much about the subject I'm rather sick of it, and plan on doing so, but I wanted to reply to a certain thing:
| Quote: |
Girls that get raped won't go on raping other girls. It doesn't work like that. What will probably happen is they will have sexual difficulties during relationships, have problems comitting, have anxiety when they step out on the street alone.
Guys that are abused or raped as little boys are the ones that are likely to become abusive later in their life. |
While there is a marked positive correlation between being abused and being an abuser, it's NOT the same as cause and effect. There's quite a bit of discussion on the matter, but it's a very dangerous and foolish thing to say "that person was abused, so he'll likely be an abuser." It's one of the greatest myths of our society, largely fueled by people who are ignorant of both statistics and psychology.
Actually, males who have been abused are in a rather unique situation in that, if they cope with it properly, they can help guide and nurture other males recovering from abuse. Probably the worst thing you could tell a boy who's been abused is "you're likely to become an abuser" - you have no idea the amount of guilt and self-hatred already associated with being abused. In fact, this myth has been so wide spread that many males never come forward and discuss their abuse, because of the social stigma and suspicion attached to the abused.
So what's actually going on? As I said, positive correlation does not equal cause and effect. (you're a bright guy, and probably stayed awake in statistics, so you probably know this, but 95% of Americans can't seem to grasp that idea) Cause and effect are a lot harder to pin down, but some theories are:
1) The biggest one, a universal human trait (even among sociopaths) is the desire to feel justified - barring that, the desire to blame someone else. You've probably noticed certain people who constantly blame other people for their own problems - their parents, their boss, their landlord, their wife, the weather, etc. etc. etc. If you want a rather brilliant example, listen to Gee Officer Krumpke from West Side Story. It's just a desire to shirk responsibility instead of admitting fault. Possibly, most child molesters when caught blame their crime on the fact that they themselves were molested - even if it's not true.
2) Abuse may be far more prevalent in certain subcultures, religions, and societies. One of the highest (if not the highest) non-sexual physical abuser groups is alcoholics. (along with other substance abusers) Alcoholism is also at least partially genetic, so it could be substance abuse is what needs to be treated in those cases.
With sexual abuse, it's far more prominent among certain religious sects - extremist Mormon sects in particular. So religious beliefs (such as that all females exist solely for man's pleasure, for example) can be a contributing factor.
There are plenty of these.
3) Men who lack role models, and grow up feeling impotent and weak. Abuse is all about asserting power, and any man, perverted or not, who feels sexually powerless is going to try to assert that power. This is the biggest "cause" for abusers if you will, and it is men who grow up with negligent fathers/father figures, sexually abusive or not are by far the most likely to be sexually abusive.
Ironically, this would mean that by far the best way to insure abused people turn into abusers is to tell them that they're to blame for the abuse that happened (and this happens indirectly CONSTANTLY, society holds such a disdain for abused people. If you don't believe me, I'll find you 5 quotes in 5 minutes), and that they're most likely going to abuse again because of what happened. That caused them to feel ashamed and powerless - and gives them some justification for abusing too. (I can't help it! It's just the way I am!)
The best response is "yes you were abused, and there was nothing you could do about it when it happened. But now you're in control, and you have the power to deal with it. You have the power to seek help, to be vulnerable and let yourself be helped, and to reach normalcy in the fullness of time. I believe in you, and have confidence you can."
Again, this is from working with these kids and hearing about all the terrible lies people would tell them about themselves, many of those people even meaning well.
I'll shut up now. |
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dosraider
Admin
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 7197
Location: ROTFLMAO in Belgium.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:42 am
Post subject: |
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| lakerzz8 wrote: |
But whatever, we'll have to agree to disagree because I'm tired of writing these long posts and reading yours. |
Yep, needless and pointless discussion.
But ... tell me, why is it only Wacko Jacko who sleeps with young children, and not , let say Germaine Jackson?
They all grew up in the same nest, had (some) success, are belonging to the 'star' elite club, but yet only Wacko is most likely a pedo?
(Remark: I said 'most likely', I didn't say he is one ....)
If your statement is true, they all had to come from a long family line of abuse, but only one has (probably, once again) become an abuser.
So it still stands: cheap excuse, nothing else. |
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Santhosh CHRiS
Way too much free time
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 583
Location: India
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lakerzz8
~Lakerz~Fan~
Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 764
Location: L.A., California
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:53 pm
Post subject: |
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| dosraider wrote: | | lakerzz8 wrote: |
But whatever, we'll have to agree to disagree because I'm tired of writing these long posts and reading yours. |
Yep, needless and pointless discussion.
But ... tell me, why is it only Wacko Jacko who sleeps with young children, and not , let say Germaine Jackson?
They all grew up in the same nest, had (some) success, are belonging to the 'star' elite club, but yet only Wacko is most likely a pedo?
(Remark: I said 'most likely', I didn't say he is one ....)
If your statement is true, they all had to come from a long family line of abuse, but only one has (probably, once again) become an abuser.
So it still stands: cheap excuse, nothing else. |
Genetics and environment play a role and while they may all live in the same house each and every one of them still grew up in a slightly different environment. Just like a younger brother and an older brother living in the same house may very well be treated differently. So it is possible that Michael was treated different or he reacted differently to the abuse, etc.
However, this is all speculation. |
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lakerzz8
~Lakerz~Fan~
Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 764
Location: L.A., California
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:53 pm
Post subject: |
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| Dogbreath wrote: | I'm quite amused watching a 17 year old California kid lecture a 55 year old who grew up in post war France on the hardships of life. Not disparaging you, lakerzz, it just struck me as funny for some reason.
I worked for a year and a half at a "children's home" (though it was mostly young teens, and run more like a JDC than a home, barbed wire fences and all) here in town that had over 80 children who had been sexually abused and specialised in SAO youth. I've been trying to avoid this discussion simply because I've talked and read so much about the subject I'm rather sick of it, and plan on doing so, but I wanted to reply to a certain thing:
| Quote: |
Girls that get raped won't go on raping other girls. It doesn't work like that. What will probably happen is they will have sexual difficulties during relationships, have problems comitting, have anxiety when they step out on the street alone.
Guys that are abused or raped as little boys are the ones that are likely to become abusive later in their life. |
While there is a marked positive correlation between being abused and being an abuser, it's NOT the same as cause and effect. There's quite a bit of discussion on the matter, but it's a very dangerous and foolish thing to say "that person was abused, so he'll likely be an abuser." It's one of the greatest myths of our society, largely fueled by people who are ignorant of both statistics and psychology.
Actually, males who have been abused are in a rather unique situation in that, if they cope with it properly, they can help guide and nurture other males recovering from abuse. Probably the worst thing you could tell a boy who's been abused is "you're likely to become an abuser" - you have no idea the amount of guilt and self-hatred already associated with being abused. In fact, this myth has been so wide spread that many males never come forward and discuss their abuse, because of the social stigma and suspicion attached to the abused.
So what's actually going on? As I said, positive correlation does not equal cause and effect. (you're a bright guy, and probably stayed awake in statistics, so you probably know this, but 95% of Americans can't seem to grasp that idea) Cause and effect are a lot harder to pin down, but some theories are:
1) The biggest one, a universal human trait (even among sociopaths) is the desire to feel justified - barring that, the desire to blame someone else. You've probably noticed certain people who constantly blame other people for their own problems - their parents, their boss, their landlord, their wife, the weather, etc. etc. etc. If you want a rather brilliant example, listen to Gee Officer Krumpke from West Side Story. It's just a desire to shirk responsibility instead of admitting fault. Possibly, most child molesters when caught blame their crime on the fact that they themselves were molested - even if it's not true.
2) Abuse may be far more prevalent in certain subcultures, religions, and societies. One of the highest (if not the highest) non-sexual physical abuser groups is alcoholics. (along with other substance abusers) Alcoholism is also at least partially genetic, so it could be substance abuse is what needs to be treated in those cases.
With sexual abuse, it's far more prominent among certain religious sects - extremist Mormon sects in particular. So religious beliefs (such as that all females exist solely for man's pleasure, for example) can be a contributing factor.
There are plenty of these.
3) Men who lack role models, and grow up feeling impotent and weak. Abuse is all about asserting power, and any man, perverted or not, who feels sexually powerless is going to try to assert that power. This is the biggest "cause" for abusers if you will, and it is men who grow up with negligent fathers/father figures, sexually abusive or not are by far the most likely to be sexually abusive.
Ironically, this would mean that by far the best way to insure abused people turn into abusers is to tell them that they're to blame for the abuse that happened (and this happens indirectly CONSTANTLY, society holds such a disdain for abused people. If you don't believe me, I'll find you 5 quotes in 5 minutes), and that they're most likely going to abuse again because of what happened. That caused them to feel ashamed and powerless - and gives them some justification for abusing too. (I can't help it! It's just the way I am!)
The best response is "yes you were abused, and there was nothing you could do about it when it happened. But now you're in control, and you have the power to deal with it. You have the power to seek help, to be vulnerable and let yourself be helped, and to reach normalcy in the fullness of time. I believe in you, and have confidence you can."
Again, this is from working with these kids and hearing about all the terrible lies people would tell them about themselves, many of those people even meaning well.
I'll shut up now. |
Thanks for your post.
By the way, I'm 18  |
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Santhosh CHRiS
Way too much free time
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 583
Location: India
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:54 pm
Post subject: What Made Jacko a Legend! |
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Yahoo India posted an interesting article
What made Jacko a legend
In 1984, a U.S. library accused Jackson of owing it over one million dollars in overdue book fines. Officials said that they would scrap the fines if he returned the books autographed.
The fact that a French Jackson aficionado committed suicide in 1984 after his mother refused to allow him to undergo surgery to look like the star shows how popular he was among his fans.
To date, over 300 million copies of his records have been sold worldwide.
Three of Jackson's albums-Bad, Dangerous and Thriller-are among the bestsellers of all time. Thriller remains the biggest-selling album since records began.
Jackson was also famous for receiving a Presidential Humanitarian Award from Ronald Reagan in 1984, for his support of charities helping people overcome alcohol and drug abuse.
Jackson's Billie Jean made him the first black artist whose video to have his video broadcast on MTV.
Jackson was also known for wearing his trademark black armband to remind fans of the suffering of children around the world.
His favourite superhero was Morph from the X-Men.
He picked up his iconic moonwalk moves, which he debuted at the Motown 25th Anniversary show in 1983, from streetdancers he had spotted performing outside a hotel.
Little Richard thought that Jackson would be the right choice to play him in a biopic.
For all of them go here
http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20090628/906/ten-what-made-jacko-a-legend.html |
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Larry Laffer
Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 3922
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:14 am
Post subject: Re: What Made Jacko a Legend! |
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| Santhosh CHRiS wrote: | The fact that a French Jackson aficionado committed suicide in 1984 after his mother refused to allow him to undergo surgery to look like the star shows how popular he was among his fans.
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Yahoo being as brilliant as ever, methinks.
Last edited by Larry Laffer on Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dogbreath
Admin
Joined: 14 Sep 2002
Posts: 4439
Location: In the back of a jacked-up Ford.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:41 am
Post subject: Re: What Made Jacko a Legend! |
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| Larry Laffer wrote: | | Santhosh CHRiS wrote: | The fact that a French Jackson aficionado committed suicide in 1984 after his mother refused to allow him to undergo surgery to look like the star shows how popular he was among his fans.
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Yahoo being as brilliant as ever, methinks |
That has to be the worst indication of popularity ever. |
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Santhosh CHRiS
Way too much free time
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 583
Location: India
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:12 pm
Post subject: Re: What Made Jacko a Legend! |
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| Dogbreath wrote: | | Larry Laffer wrote: | | Santhosh CHRiS wrote: | The fact that a French Jackson aficionado committed suicide in 1984 after his mother refused to allow him to undergo surgery to look like the star shows how popular he was among his fans.
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Yahoo being as brilliant as ever, methinks |
That has to be the worst indication of popularity ever. |
Lol. I know. Yahoo is crazy sometimes. The overdue library books really cracked me up through. He owed the library over 1 million dollars in fine and all he had to do was return them with his signature on it and they'd cancel the fine 
Btw I heard the Michael Jackson funeral will be held on Friday or something. Really wish I could attend it but the ticket is a bit too steep. I've always wanted to see him perform in a concert when he was alive  |
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Larry Laffer
Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 3922
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:34 pm
Post subject: Re: What Made Jacko a Legend! |
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| Santhosh CHRiS wrote: | | Dogbreath wrote: | | Larry Laffer wrote: | | Santhosh CHRiS wrote: | The fact that a French Jackson aficionado committed suicide in 1984 after his mother refused to allow him to undergo surgery to look like the star shows how popular he was among his fans.
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Yahoo being as brilliant as ever, methinks |
That has to be the worst indication of popularity ever. |
Lol. I know. Yahoo is crazy sometimes. The overdue library books really cracked me up through. He owed the library over 1 million dollars in fine and all he had to do was return them with his signature on it and they'd cancel the fine
|
And you actually think that really happened? 
Google never heard about it, and Michael Jackson doesn't strike me as the avid reader.
Also, regarding his funeral: It'd be bloody funny if this was a setup so he could pop out of his coffin, say "Thriller" at which point everybody starts dancing. |
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Santhosh CHRiS
Way too much free time
Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 583
Location: India
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:59 pm
Post subject: Re: What Made Jacko a Legend! |
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| Larry Laffer wrote: | | Santhosh CHRiS wrote: | | Dogbreath wrote: | | Larry Laffer wrote: | | Santhosh CHRiS wrote: | The fact that a French Jackson aficionado committed suicide in 1984 after his mother refused to allow him to undergo surgery to look like the star shows how popular he was among his fans.
|
Yahoo being as brilliant as ever, methinks |
That has to be the worst indication of popularity ever. |
Lol. I know. Yahoo is crazy sometimes. The overdue library books really cracked me up through. He owed the library over 1 million dollars in fine and all he had to do was return them with his signature on it and they'd cancel the fine
|
And you actually think that really happened?
Google never heard about it, and Michael Jackson doesn't strike me as the avid reader.
Also, regarding his funeral: It'd be bloody funny if this was a setup so he could pop out of his coffin, say "Thriller" at which point everybody starts dancing. |
Yahoo kicks Google's butt anytime! I hate Google. Ooh look at me I've got 1 tiny blank page with a search engine... OOH! I'm gonna own the entire web now buy out everyone else like Youtube and copy whatever Yahoo is doing and add some crap to make people think theirs is better and original. Ooh we own more shares than Microsoft now. Let's block every OTHER search engine out there or shut them down!! 
http://www.googlesux.com/
And yes it would be cool if Michael did that. Infact there are already many speculations that Michael faked his death to avoid debts he owed and pop back when things clear up a bit.
You can read more about it here
http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/9352/michael-jackson-faked-his-own-death/
It would at least stop a lot of hardcore Michael fans who suicide every day now because of his death |
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